Revo Scan - Weird texture artifacts & far too long texturing process

[Bango]

@PUTV

That is not how it works , you have 2 types , RGB color per vertex that capture RGB data while capturing frames at the beginning , and then you have UV’s texturing produces what is a separate process .

And where does Revo Scan get the color data to create the textures from?

@PUTV

That is how you do things if you want the textures to be optimized , optimized textures use every fragment of the UV’s so no, it is not unnecessary , it could have even more islands for higher quality

Sure, to get the best quality out of an UV you should use every space of it but you also have to consider the islands to be uniform and to avoid to much visible seams. This may work in the Revo Software as it seems to use something like a box projection but in other programs you will see those seams and then your 3D model looks like a cheap imitation of Frankensteins monster. Besides that creating a UV map with so much islands increases the wrapping/texturing process immensely.

@PUTV

So what you use for Revo Scan if not M2 SSD ? what the point to running only the system on it, if the system can’t perform the task at optimal speed ? you could just use it and move the files once a week to your second HD to safe space .

I use a normal SSD for 3D modeling/developing. It only has a reading speed of 555 MB/s and a writing speed of 301 MB/s but that’s okay for now. I don’t have the money to replace it at the moment but I already took this in to consideration.

@PUTV

It is not a color data , you mean textures and UVs … color data is safe when edited with Revo Studio , UVs and Textures are not . I asked already the Development team to add Texturing function to Revo Studio but the problem is that after the model is changed , or reduced it is impossible to retexturing it using the old data , the model structure changed … the only way is to create textures from the color vertex data what is in my opinion much better looking after with less artifacts and issues .

Both, photogrammetry (color per vertex/cloud point) and textures (color per pixel), are sort of the same, contain color information and belong to the category of color data. Revo Scan should already have the color data for both formats right after the scan is finished, so it should be able to save this data in the CSPJR file and it should be able to also reduce/adjust the data as needed to fit to the current model before the texturing process starts. I guess this would reduce the processing time a lot.

@PUTV

That is complicated , you can’t have the same quality on all platforms as the mobile devices are not powerful enough to do the task , so phones or tablets are limited , however you can still scan pretty good point cloud and mesh it in Revo Studio for top quality . Other way it is a toy on a phone and can’t be better as it will eliminate many devices automatic as it use RAM for processing , you buy 8GB RAM device , the system use 2.5GB and you have left 5.5 GB for scanning , I would not even expect Revo Studio to be available on mobile devices unless you want to wait 24h for each process …

Sure, you won’t get the same quality or speed as if you would use a powerful workstation but for this, there are the minimum/recommended system requirements and then you’re able to do the tasks on your smartphone/tablet… assuming your device does fit those requirements. Like I said before, what about users which don’t have a powerful computer or which want to scan things on the way? Do they have bad luck then? If users are allowed to use their scanner with their mobile device then they also should be allowed to use every provided software on it.

But just as an example: My smartphone does assume the recommended requirements and it still isn’t able to recognize the POP 2 when it’s connected via USB.

However, I think that merging all the applications into one software would make future development and bug fixing a lot easier.

I know the developers already have a lot of work to do, but it’s just a suggestion for now. You don’t have to accept my proposal, now or ever. I’ll try to post a more detailed explanation of what I’m thinking about, and that will take some time anyway.

[PUTV]

@Bango

And where does Revo Scan get the color data to create the textures from?

It capture color frame every second frame , the color per vertex ( per point) data is generated in real time , the UVs and textures are generated after and not from color per vertex but from files from the cache . Textures are independent process and not using color per vertex data .

@Bango

Sure, to get the best quality out of an UV you should use every space of it but you also have to consider the islands to be uniform and to avoid to much visible seams. This may work in the Revo Software as it seems to use something like a box projection but in other programs you will see those seams and then your 3D model looks like a cheap imitation of Frankensteins monster. Besides that creating a UV map with so much islands increases the wrapping/texturing process immensely.

I had no issues with that in any high ends programs , I am doing it for a living for almost 25 years already everyday , due to triangles it is the best solution , automatic process like that do not generate “nice” islands cutting everything with precision , that would be too good to be true and nothing will be change in this direction . It was like that since the beginning and it did not changed in the last 22 years .

@Bango

I use a normal SSD for 3D modeling/developing. It only has a reading speed of 555 MB/s and a writing speed of 301 MB/s but that’s okay for now. I don’t have the money to replace it at the moment but I already took this in to consideration.

it will speed up your PC processing definitely , I tried to do that using regular SSD before , but I know M2 are not cheap , I have to move my projects to portable HD often since I do a lot of scans as well .

@Bango

Both, photogrammetry (color per vertex/cloud point) and textures (color per pixel), are sort of the same, contain color information and belong to the category of color data. Revo Scan should already have the color data for both formats right after the scan is finished, so it should be able to save this data in the CSPJR file and it should be able to also reduce/adjust the data as needed to fit to the current model before the texturing process starts. I guess this would reduce the processing time a lot.

They are not the same , color per vertex is color per point , each point represent a pixel, how more points, how sharper the quality of the color data , for that reason is is impossible to create textures from color oer vertex data in Revo point , becouse if you have holes and later you fill the holes there will be no color data available , textures are generated according to UVs so after your mesh it and not before , the color pictures are already saved in the data folder and used for this process , and can;t be generated before meshing is complete .
Of course generating textures from RGB data would be faster , as I am doing it outside Revo Scan and it takes a seconds to generate on a UVs I like to use … so for me personally the texturing process in Reco Scan is not usable for anything , for me RGB data is what I need , however I need to mesh the point cloud as well to have proper aligment .

@Bango

Like I said before, what about users which don’t have a powerful computer or which want to scan things on the way? Do they have bad luck then? If users are allowed to use their scanner with their mobile device then they also should be allowed to use every provided software on it.

I understand , but hey don’t get mad at me , you know what you buy , you got a bike and now you want an electric car to be made from that , that is not how it works .
Revopoint is run by post doctorate engineers, not some bunch of happy coding morons , they know what they doing and what they can or not , they are always open to suggestions , and if possible making it happen , but you need to be realistic , it is not an open source program and everything cost money not to mention limitations of the algorithms .

I would really love to have one program for everything , from scanning to editing in one package and many other things as you do … but we have to wait before anything of it become reality .

@Bango

But just as an example: My smartphone does assume the recommended requirements and it still isn’t able to recognize the POP 2 when it’s connected via USB.

That is limitation of your phone , my phone works just fine with USB , but my tablet with the same Android 11 and better specifications don’t , I contacted the makers , and they can’t do anything as that is hardware related and recommended to use WiFI , so what I should do here , Revopoint will not magically change my tablet to make it works with a software … it just don’t works and that is the fault of the makers of the tablet and nobody else’s .
Samsung latelly had also huge issues with their USB-C being disconnecting constantly even when using with PC for data transfer .

Same with PC , on some motherboards it works on others it don’t and it is related to the hardware and system configurations , some system need to have adjusted USB power usage to keep the connection steady and not shut down it for saving power etc… so lots of stuff that the Revo Scan can’t control as it is the end user device and system .
It is annoying when things don’t want to work the way you want it to work .

Any suggestions are always welcome David , but please adress it directly to Revopoint in the support and feedback forum .
We can talk about wishes and stuff , but if you have anything specific , it would be good if you adress Revopoint directly .

@Bango

You don’t have to accept my proposal, now or ever.

To be honest , I am always open for a good ideas , nothing to do with accepting or not , as you, I want my things to work the way I need … it is personal
but many ideas that Revopoint listen to only downgradet the whole apps , and I am all about the quality , as you can’t sacrifice a quality scans so someone can run an app on a 2GB phone to have fun with it for a while before dropping it … So I am for ideas and suggestions that will make the process better and the top quality is priority for me .

[Phil]

@PUTV

The development team is very busy right now and until they adress all bugs reported , there will be nothing new added. The software is very sensitive and do the job as the firmware allows , any small adjusting can easily broke things as it is happening at this moment , so all we have left is little patience and let them do their job so we finally have a solid foundation for new stuff .
Any changes to the software requires changes in firmware so it is not so easy task when you deal with all the customers devices that need to be upgraded…

Hello PUTV, I haven’t had the opportunity to use and test my pop2 a lot.
I haven’t updated the software or firmware since the pop2 was delivered in May 2022.
Do you think I should this or wait for the bugs to be fixed
Thanks in advance. (I couldn’t find the exact version, I don’t see the information anywhere)
Philippe.

[PUTV]

Hi Philippe,
If you not in hurry please wait , if you did not updated the software then your POP2 is still working fine as it should .

Wait for the bugs to be fixed !
If you want to see the version numbers just connect the device and open Revo Scan and click the info icon on the right bottom on the screen .

[Bango]

Okay, I think I understand now. During the texturing process Revo Scan is creating an UV map of the 3D model and then it bakes the textures onto the UV map.

But unwrapping the model automatically takes most of the time during this process as I’ve noticed something similar in Blender when using Smart UV Project on a high poly model.

Besides that, Revo Scan’s texturing process is destructive as you can’t redo/change anything afterwards if you’re not happy with the result.

The developers definitely should move the whole post editing procedure of the scanned data to Revo Studio and let Revo Scan just do scans. No wonder the developers lose track or that the quality of functions overlaps when two programs can do almost the same thing.

@PUTV

I understand , but hey don’t get mad at me , you know what you buy , you got a bike and now you want an electric car to be made from that , that is not how it works .

That’s not what I want, also this is a bad comparison
A bike should be able to drive and steer like a bike is meant to be. More over, the idea of how a bike should work is older then the one of how a scanner should be used or work. However, we’re talking about software and a software’s accessibility and user experience are very important for it to be able to persist long.

@PUTV

That is limitation of your phone

But according to the requirements given by Revopoint, my phone should be compatible.

I’ve already contacted the Revopoint support regarding this issue but they weren’t able to help. They said it’s a driver compatibility issue due to my smartphone and that I should contact the support of my smartphones manufacturer but the smartphone doesn’t receive updates anymore as it’s reached EOS.

So either the requirements given by Revopoint are incomplete or there really is a problem with the Revopoint hardware/software.

@Bango

You don’t have to accept my proposal, now or ever.

Okay sorry, there’s a misspelling
This wasn’t addressed to you but to the developers. It should stay that “They don’t have to accept my proposal”

@PUTV

but many ideas that Revopoint listen to only downgradet the whole apps , and I am all about the quality , as you can’t sacrifice a quality scans so someone can run an app on a 2GB phone to have fun with it for a while before dropping it … So I am for ideas and suggestions that will make the process better and the top quality is priority for me .

Hey, that’s okay! I don’t want Revopoint to accept suggestions which decrease the quality or the experience overall but the software and the way how they’ll be used need more consistency.

[PUTV]

@Bango

Okay, I think I understand now. During the texturing process Revo Scan is creating an UV map of the 3D model and then it bakes the textures onto the UV map.

Yes that is correct

@Bango

But unwrapping the model automatically takes most of the time during this process as I’ve noticed something similar in Blender when using Smart UV Project on a high poly model.

There is no other way , we are dealing here with triangles, and triangles are a pest , I never create UV maps on millions of poly model, nobody do that . This is just and old way to deal with , how larger the model how longer you have to wait , so capturing as less frames as possible will also speed up the process .

@Bango

Besides that, Revo Scan’s texturing process is destructive as you can’t redo/change anything afterwards if you’re not happy with the result.

Sadly you can’t undo UVs , when I work on my UVs since that is one of my specialty at my pro work , I work always on a copy and when I like it I copy and paste the new UVs to the original model .
Revo Scan is not a modeling program not is Revo Studio , however if you don’t like the result you will not get any better , the results are as good as your scanned session . Undo would not make any difference .

@Bango

The developers definitely should move the whole post editing procedure of the scanned data to Revo Studio and let Revo Scan just do scans. No wonder the developers lose track or that the quality of functions overlaps when two programs can do almost the same thing.

That’s the problem , they can’t since the whole process really on the scanned session data , unless Revo Scan and Revo Studio are not as one it will not happen.
The only way it would works if you are allowed to open your project in Revo Studio as that is what I ask for , for some time and conversion from RGB to textures in Revo Studio, because after merging the textures are no more usable anyway and new one need to be generated what is not possible with Revo Scan or Revo Studio , so not complete edition .

In the begining Revo Studio had only simple option, now more features are added so who knows what it going to look like in the future , however I use mostly CC anyway if I have to deal with multiple scans so personally care less about Revo Studio to be honest .

@Bango

That’s not what I want, also this is a bad comparison
A bike should be able to drive and steer like a bike is meant to be. More over, the idea of how a bike should work is older then the one of how a scanner should be used or work. However, we’re talking about software and a software’s accessibility and user experience are very important for it to be able to persist long.

For me , all I need it perfect cloud point data with RGB … the rest I don’t care , there are perfect programs to do the rest of the work and also free to use but more advanced . Unless it don’t reach the level , I will care less about .

@Bango

But according to the requirements given by Revopoint, my phone should be compatible.

Revopoint is not responsible for your phone hardware, not all phones running the same OS provide the same options . It is impossible for Revopoint to even fix the USB disconnecting issues as even the phone makers can’t provide solution .
Same on PC , one motherboard works ok with USB , others don’t . And the issue is related to the hardware.
I remember in the begining Windows update screwed USB connection to the scanner then another update fixed it … things Revopoint don’t have control over.
My Sony Xperia phone did not worked with USB-C , then I got TCL phone and working fine , same operating system and cheaper .

@Bango

Okay sorry, there’s a misspelling
This wasn’t addressed to you but to the developers. It should stay that “They don’t have to accept my proposal”

no problem
The development team is very hard in accepting major changes , costs extra and because of the algorithms it is sometimes very limited to make things works .
You see the scanners are much better than the software offers at this moment .
It is always the software with all scanners in the world that is not 100% the way it should , now you have 3 scanners that need to works with the same software , if there was just one scanner, things would be much easier .

@Bango

Hey, that’s okay! I don’t want Revopoint to accept suggestions which decrease the quality or the experience overall but the software and the way how they’ll be used need more consistency.

It is not they don’t want, they are limited what they can do , that is the problem .
I provide not only bugs , but sometimes also solutions with my reports and what should be addressed to fix it .
There is no consistency and that bothers me sometimes , and no synchronisation.
But as I said before, adding one new thing breaking down another as working with the algorithms is a pest.

But I hope things going to works better , it is being a long time , and it is time for serious improvements, the scanning quality is great , but the rest need a lot of work .
As you remember my alignment issue , it need to be fixed , as it can’t work this way and they still working on it and the time is ticking, August here already and new customers going to be frustrated if things don’t going to be done on time.